He has a physical form. It seems to me that we are entering into historical anachronism. So Glaucus came seeking her to wife with gifts; but cloud-driving Zeus, king of the deathless gods, bent his head in oath that the son of Sisyphus should never have children born of one father. He grew up in England and moved to Los Angeles in 1976. In the age it was first established, the shoreline stood much closer to the site than it does today due to silt deposits collected over the past 7000 years. The Olmec culture flourished between somewhere around 1200 and 400 BC. Genesis 5 follows the more godly line of Seth, one of Cain's younger brothers. And yes I confirm sources. Initially, it was much like you said, social and sexual equality in the hunter-gatherer migrating tribes, then in the primitive settled horticultural cultures. Best of 2022 Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Top 250 TV Shows Most Popular TV Shows Most Popular Video Games Most Popular Music Videos Most Popular Podcasts. Anyway, I am going all over the place, and am digressing. - Apocalyptic Q+R, The Blood Cries Out - Apocalyptic Special Episode, How to Live Like Jesus is Lord - Letters E3, Honor-Shame Culture and the Gospel - Letters E4, Which New Testament Commands Should We Obey? It's in Eden that He creates just one individual and places him in an environment not unlike a scientific experiment. What I'm doing here is I'm attempting to establish Genesis as a legitimate source of factual information based on the ample evidence I've provided to back up my claim. Anointed E2, The Anointed King in Psalms Anointed E5, A Symptom of Human Violence The City E3, The Biggest, Baddest City in the Bible The City E4, The Bible's Most Famous City The City E7, City of God or City of Cain? Most everyone is familiar with the story in Genesis where Cain killed Abel and was driven from the land. this.isDirty = false At some point the descendants of Adam/Eve/Cain began intermingling with mortal humans. Jeremy Christian (author) from Texas on September 19, 2012: The connection is the Nephilim. . Here we are again, with you speaking as the knowledgeable authority alluding to 'obvious' flaws in my grasp of the evidence I provide with nothing to detail what makes you think so that doesn't stem from our fundamental philosophical differences. You have a knowledge of more modern and mysterious literature, that is not known very well by most people. But what is known is that the Akkadian language has been around since well before 3000 BC to the north of Sumer. Notice how they were described. The sargon of Akkad article in wikipedia, is a good brief of the history. We don't know too much about Arabus, however, Belus, father of Thornia and grandfather of Arabus, is a well-known person in ancient history. 5:11) refers to Job as an example of patience, which he would not have been likely to do had Job been only a fictitious person. Dr. Esau McCaulley, Does the Church Supercede Israel? Jews were descendants of Judah son of Jacob; Jacob, the second son whom the Spirit granted to Isaac in Genesis 25. Genesis 4:16-24, Cain's Descendants and Implications for Today Standing in the Eleventh Hour Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. I agree that it was pre-diluvian. This hardly seems fair. It also says that in contrast to the 'sons of God', which Genesis 5 says lived for centuries, humans were mortal and only live 120 years. Though Ur is not counted among the pre-flood cities by the Sumerians and shows to be the bearer of the kingship long after the flood according to the Kings List, archaeological evidence shows a human presence in the region that would become Ur as far back as the Ubaid period as well. Then it says God looked on all His creation and deemed it 'good'. With the death of his brothers Cain and Abel and of Cain's descendants, Seth became progenitor of the rest of the human race, as shown in this greatly abbreviated family tree. Genesis 6 also says the Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and after. There was serious reason for mystery. What was the sin of Cain? The Akkadian language gradually took over as the predominant language, but the Sumerian language was still used for religious and scientific purposes (kind of like latin today). I'm building my own personal understanding, so I'm not going to build on shaky, unproven, untested ground. If we're to take from this that the Nephilim were the offspring of the 'sons of God'/'daughters of humans' then these were beings (Titans/demigods) who also possessed free will/knowledge of good and evil, lived extended lifespans, and who were, according to Numbers 13, large in stature. I too see the mythologies of the Sumerians/Akkadians/Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, etc, as a kind of embellished but real history. I went from history to philosophy or theology. And plucked the victim from his teeth.". Something more? The site of Ur is literally within eyesight of Eridu, as many of the first Sumerian cities were. .. Because the devil knows he is doomed to the Pit. Obviously, the Bible talks about two gods; the one - caring, loving, creator of good things only. It's alive, full of spirits, from the animals to the weather and the rocks and the trees. The ziggurat ruins of Eridu are much larger and much older than any others. For few are the goods of human life, and many are the evils, and the good is to be attributed to God alone; of the evils the causes are to be sought elsewhere, and not in him."" 33 And Bela died, and Jobab the son of Zerah of Bozrah reigned in his stead. one can see numerous similarities between Job and Jobab; the second king of Edom. The Bible clearly shows us the only people on the ark were Noah, his wife, Noah's three sons, and their wives. And what is the relationship of the Church to Israel? Ur was a Sumerian city, but it was not the first. I for one am leaning towards another interpretation. Babylon here probably refers to Eridu** (note below), Uruk is of course a Sumerian city, and Akkad is a city to the north that the Akkadians eventually came from centuries later, all of which were located in the region known as Sumer. Why Do Cain's Descendants Show Up After the Flood? What's even more interesting is that there are also linguistic similarities, and cultural similarities (in artwork, clothing, drums, and diet) between the Indians of the Pacific northwest and, believe it or not, dynastic Chinese culture. (Such a belief for me is simply absurd). This verse indicates that, after the flood, Serpent had another child or children. Heaven and Earth Part 4: What Did The Biblical Writers Think Happens After You Die? 1656 years passed between Adam's creation and the flood, roughly 1500 years after Cain was first banished. I guess my deal is making sure that people know that when they try to reconcile science and the Bible it's futile because they don't match, you can't force religion or convince people of the truth of your personal religion, when the facts of reality contradict religion, the Christian one as well as all others. One defines the other and vise versa. . And he wedded the dear child of the great-hearted Iobates, the worshipful king lord (of) and she bare.. artblack01 from New Mexico on April 09, 2012: "What I'm doing here is I'm attempting to establish Genesis as a legitimate source of factual information based on the ample evidence I've provided to back up my claim.". So, a man who presumably lived a similar length lifetime to that of his father, Adam, and brother, Seth, with knowledge of farming and agriculture, cursed so that he could not grow food himself and bearing a mark that protected him from harm, went out into a populated region and somehow overcame his 'restlessly wondering' fate by settling and building a city where at least seven generations of descendents existed for over 1500 years. From what I understand you've never eluded to Esau and Jacob not being twins of the same father, so I'm not sure how you get that. Cain's banishment happened before Adam was 130, leaving about 1500 years or so between that and the flood. Angels are never referred to as sons of God. Few signs of warfare appear in Minoan art. And the older hypothetical source texts are dated based on how it's written; names and titles used and such (Documentary Hypothesis). This name is well attested as a West Semitic name in the second millennium B.C. (it only becomes a great city by around the time of Hamurabi (ca. Exodus E9, Why Moses Couldnt Enter the Tabernacle Exodus E10, Two Takes on the Test at Mount Sinai Feat. Noachs wife was a descendant of Cain, so everyone is a descendent of Cain as well: Wiped all flesh off the face of the earth, but in every era spiritually at least, it's Cain (jealous/haters) against Havel (the pure spirit of truth and Mashiach), the Mixed vs. the Tzaddik Moshe-Mashiach. The epic of gilgamesh could have been used as a source by the legendary author of Torah's book of genesis. The one problem I found with your statement and theirs (which helped me become an atheist) was neither you nor they have any evidence to back up any of your claims.". I will be his father, and he will be my son. There are cultural and linguistic similarities between all 3 of these cultures that suggests they're related. Considering he was voicing this concern just a handful of decades into Adam's lifetime and before the birth of Seth, it's highly unlikely that he was speaking of anyone in his family. around 1800's BCE). This account matches the flood story that concludes the Epic ofAtrahasis(see alsoGilgamesh flood myth).". 43 Why is my language not clear to you? The Minoan (Minaean) civilization was a Bronze Age civilization whicharose on the island of Crete and Santorini. Her name is Naamah, Tubal-Cains fair young sis. (0:50) Where Did Cains Wife Come From? Can somebody else please comment and let me know if this is happening to them too? Were these just really imaginative stories? So let me get this straight. Different classes separating those who were the workers and those who were the leaders. And what is the relationship of the Church to Israel? Check out Tims library here. This man is described in the Syriac book as living in the land of Ausis, on the borders of Idumea and Arabia: and his name before was Jobab; and having taken an Arabian wife, he begot a son whose name was Ennon. I am also very interested in hearing more about this name change to hide his original lineage. Following Abel's death, God explained that spilling Abel's blood had cursed Cain so that when he worked the ground it would no longer yield crops for him. Numbers Q+R, How Do We Use the Law Today? Thank you for that very informative reference to Enki That is a fascinating connection to the Babel tale Jeremy Christian (author) from Texas on September 08, 2012: Hey John King IV, thanks for reading and for the comment. Males are ideal people to fill the roles in the army and government. 27 The owners servants came to him and said, Sir, didnt you sow good seed in your field? And those of Adam/Eve were also different in comparison to 'mortal humans' in that they lived much longer lives. I see the events of Babel, not as punishment or as an act of mercy, but more as a means to advance God's overall purpose in general. Assuming there were many other descendants of Cain in that 7th generation not specifically mentioned, chances are Naamah being named specifically is significant. What was the downfall of the descendants of Seth? Basically, I see the first 11 chapters of Genesis describing exactly how God set the stage for human history to play out. Then the Lord said, My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.. Personally, I see the Ubaid culture as the natural indigenous people of that region influenced by the presence of beings who seemed god-like and immortal in comparison. And when he began to roam, his father gave him Pegasus who would bear him most swiftly on his wings, and flew unwearying everywhere over the earth, for like the gales he would course along. The first Sumerian cities existed 3000 years before their system of writing became advanced enough to allow for the recording of their own oral historical tales. After the fall man had lost the capacity to dominate the earth. It was this era and this time frame when humans changed on a fundamental level. In this way, sin can be seen as a cancer. 19 if I have seen anyone perishing for lack of clothing,or a needy man without a garment. 11 When the ear heard, then it blessed me. Emotions are natural. Class stratification, the prizing of possessions. - Letters Q+R #2, The Most Quoted Verse in the Bible - Character of God E1, A God of Our Own Making Character of God E2, The Uniquely Biblical View of Grace Character of God E4, Does God Curse Generations? Jeremy Christian (author) from Texas on August 15, 2012: Thank you for sharing that hub, Cam. Throughout the following centuries there was a mixing of the Akkadians of the north and the Sumerians of the south. Sarah was then returned to Abraham and they were sent away. Jeremy Christian (author) from Texas on October 12, 2012: I had read before, but had forgotten about, your claim that Cain was actually the son of Satan, which I simply cannot accept. search(index){ 17 And Job spoke before the king, the princes, and before all the elders of Egypt, saying. Then in the next story, Cain is also banished/exiled to the East after he kills his brother Able. These were survivors of the flood. We are the creators of sin, like cancerous cells are the creators of cancer. There was also another peacefull Bronze Age civilisation which was called EDOM,and Job, whom Sophar king of Minaeans / Minoans visited was the king of Edom. facetFilters: (global) ? Jeremy Christian (author) from Texas on September 10, 2012: Even from translation to translation it changes G10:10 (KJV21) - And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. In the legend, Lamech is a blind but skilled hunter, and Tubal-Cain accompanies him to direct his bow and arrow. For several centuries after there is no evidence of any human presence in this region. 23 For I dreaded destruction from God,and for fear of his splendor I could not do such things. John Collins, Reading Genesis Well: Navigating History, Poetry, Science, and Truth in Genesis 1-11Interested in more? Then it's the Israelites like when God referred to them as his 'firstborn son' when conveying His message through Moses to the Pharaoh. This was, and in some cases still is, the standard. Cain, Son of the Fallen Angel Samael - TheTorah.com Part 1: Defining Holiness, The Christian Ideal Part 2: Our Divine Nature, How to Read the Bible Part 7: Understanding Plot and Narrative in Bible Stories. timer: undefined, It is a pleasure to again hear a quote from one of the world's oldest story: the epic of gilgamesh". According to the Sumerians, whose name literally means 'black-headed ones', they were created by their gods to serve them. Why Do Cain's Descendants Show Up After the Flood? There's a very limited sense of property or ownership in general. Over the course of thousands of years Neanderthals systematically hunted the once dominant mega-fauna species (Saber-toothed tigers, mammoths, dire wolves) throughout ancient Europe. one important thing: Babylon is not necessarily the same as Babel. Most people think that Greek mythology are a made up stories, while in fact, it is a bit twisted history, still containing many useful genealogical information; and the Catalogue of Woman - Ehoiae by Hesiod, is the best example of it. Only Almighty God is Lord and Saviour, and HE has no begotten son, and there is no trinity. He named both of them, Cain's descendants are credited with inventing most of the things that make civilization possible. Cain built a city and named the city after his son Enoch. The descendants of Arabus settled in the Jordan Valley, what was known in the time of Moses as the Arabah Valley. } Dr. Carmen Imes, Jesus and the Parables of the Prophets Parables E2, Parables as Subversive Critique Parables E3, Finding Meaning in the Parables Parables E6, Is the Gospel an Apocalypse? Other native tribes however seemed to be more "advanced" (meaning they had permanent villages and places to live, they had governments which included laws, an army, and social classes. artblack01 from New Mexico on April 03, 2012: I read through some of it but realized it's the same Bible study type ideas that I grew up with. You and everyone else who reads the Bible must realize that these are all myths some of the people might have been based on real people but the details are obviously blown out of proportion, the supernatural is injected into it for explanation of inspiration and explanation of the unexplainable natural phenomenon. Paradigm Q+R #2, Applying the Paradigm: Movements and Links, Gods Spirit in the Flood Narrative Genesis E2, Trees of Testing and Blessing Genesis E4, Great Blessing and Great Responsibility Genesis E5, Wrestling God for a Blessing Genesis E6, Joseph the Suffering Servant Genesis E8, Why Cant Jacob and Esau Both Be Blessed? Furthermore, no evidence exists for a Minoan army, or for Minoandomination of peoples outside Crete. in a city with a motto that was deep: Stack Exchange network consists of 182 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. But then there are things that just don't work in that context. I do think Shinar refers to Sumer. After his distressing trial was over, we are told that Job was greater and more blessed than even before (Job 42:12). I think this is the second time you bring this issue into question. 7 After he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters. The remains of Eridu are located near the mouth of the Euphrates river just north of the Persian gulf. Only men could be sons or "sons of Satan", I don't know if it's just me or if perhaps everyone else encountering problems with your website. class="bg-grey-900 text-white rounded-sm sm:mt-10 mb-20 h-full sm:h-auto" Throughout the ages many jews came to accept it, with the exception of the Saducees. In Job, we see the doctrine of the ressurection of the dead already asserted, by a gentile. The city-state of Uruk was established around the beginning of this period. Created by delaawest Terms in this set (19) Why was Cain's sacrifice not as acceptable as Abel's? Adam and Eve's third child becomes the ancestor of the line of humanity that ten generations later, leads to Noah, the progenitor of the sole surviving humans after the great flood. I think Eridu is pre-diluvian. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I'm actually working on a hub right now that addresses this specifically. Because Sarah is so beautiful they decide to tell the Egyptians she is his sister, and not his wife, because they were afraid the Egyptians would kill Abraham to take Sarah. She became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. They are only servants of God and men. Let me put it another way. These gifts of civilization themselves are spoken about in more detail in "Inanna and Enki: The Transfer of the Arts of Civilization from Eridu to Uruk". I am merely stating that you are wrong based on such and such laws of physics and you dance around that again. The research found flood sediments only on the eastern side of a desert wall built almost 1,000 years ago. As much as I like to bargain, Im never comfortable when the negotiation doesnt start with a price tag. Abraham did not do such things. These people where not necessarily seen as connected with the older gods or their children, the giants. The Death of Cain. The World's First Murder, Epilogue And she went to enquire of the LORD. 7 So the Lord said, " I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and . isDirty: false, I also detail the mythological stories told by the people that lived in that region during that time and how they relate to what Genesis is saying. (1 Chronicles 1:1-4) Otherwise I would be lost forever. Here I'm talking about the 1500 years or so of pre-deluvian events described in Genesis, which includes the building of a city and seven generations of Cain's family, including those who 'fathered' the people that lived in tents and raised livestock/played stringed instruments/made metal tools. But when we look closer and understand its context, we can see that its actually a beautiful meditation on the image of God. 03422292). 2300's BCE). However, few doubt the city named as the birthplace of Abram's father was in fact the Sumerian city of Ur. CAIN'S DESCENDANTS? If Cain's line died out in the flood why are they Can you find a reference to Babylon that pre-dates Sargon the great? 39 Abraham is our father, they answered. In Genesis 11, all of humanity is depicted as migrating to the East, and then scattered from there. One ancient source says Sargon founded Babylon (ca 2,300 BCE). World history- 4 fall of man and flood from God Flashcards For instance, the Philistine Goliath, was a giant, yet un-related to the gods or heroes. Why would they even be capable of procreation? God Created Evolution: The Mysterious Unnamed Characters of Pre-Flood Genesis, Finding Reconciliation Between Science and God, Genesis Creation Story is Scientifically Accurate, Adam was not the first human, for the bible tells us so. Thank you to our audience for your incredible questions. Evidence that you continually dodge addressing by trying to turn this into a philosophical debate. Pre-flood Genesis: Cain, His City, and His Descendants I am however puzzled by what you mean by free will. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.. if(value ==='') return; Many thanks registry scanner. She was the wife of Noah! 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. But on the other hand, the god of Paul and of uthe whole Israel, is the god who DOES as he PLEASES. I have heard this old view of the scholars and archeologists before.
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